THE RICH MIX -Episode 8 Simon Gould

Hey guys, it's Rich here from The Rich Mix and I've got an awesome guest with me today. His name is Simon Gould. He's a good friend.

We've known each other for a short time, but it seems like we've known each other forever. He's like a brother from another mother. And so thank you, Simon, for coming on board, my friend.

 

Hey man, thank you. I'm really stoked to be here and excited to be on your show. And yeah, a brother from another mother, I like that.

And it's like looking into a mirror right now. I know. I'm like, is that me reflected back at me or is that Rich? I know.

 

I'm like the, you're like the flat white and I'm like the espresso, you know? Your dark chocolate. All dark chocolate, that's it. Yeah.

Awesome. So I've got a list of questions, like which I've got for everyone that comes on board. And so let's get cracking.

So first of all, like, can you share a little bit of your story behind the, you know, founding Orbit Marketing and what inspired you to start your own business?

 

Yeah, absolutely. So for those who don't know me, which will be most of your audience, we have a digital marketing agency called Orbit Marketing and we've been running since 2017. So there's been so many changes in the landscape since then, but I guess I've been in advertising and I've been in media for quite a few years and I've worked for corporates.

So a couple of big ones, I won't name them, but a couple of big corporate publishing companies. And it was kind of around that time where, you know, print was sort of dying out and digital marketing was coming in and there just wasn't any real support for small and medium-sized businesses who wanted to do something in that digital space. Like there was plenty of support for the big guys.

If you had big budgets, then there was agency support for you, no problem. But if you were a smaller business, there just wasn't. And so like there was this one particular instance where I just landed a client and I was really excited about it.

And the company that I was working for were not happy, you know, because these guys didn't have what they thought was enough of a budget. And for the company, it was a lot, it was a big risk for them to pull money out of print and put it into digital. And it was in line with what a lot of the other businesses in their industries would have been able to spend.

But because these guys were focused on big budgets, they just weren't thrilled. And I thought, this seems really unfair like to that business. So that was the moment where I thought, one, I want to be able to help these people.

And so I'm going to do something. And two, there's got to be a lot of them. So that's a real business opportunity.

I remember like an old mentor of mine said to me, Simon, you can get awfully fat on small crumbs. And I'm like, yeah, totally. So that was ringing in my ears.

And so that was kind of, yeah, that was the motivation behind it. It was like, well, these people need help. I can help them and I can build a business at the same time.

 

Like, let's go. And so that's where the idea for Orbit came from. Yeah.

 

No, awesome. So now in this fast-paced world of digital marketing, what sets Orbit apart from other agencies? Is there any?

 

Yeah, look, that's a great question. And I've thought a lot about that.

 

And the thing is, there's a lot of really good agencies, like genuinely good agencies. And there's a lot of like cowboys in this industry too, because there's no barrier to entry, right? You've got a laptop and a wifi, you can set up an agency. But so I don't know if, I don't know what sets us apart from all other agencies, but certainly what we do is we're not really that focused on the latest shiny object.

For us, it's about solid, fundamental principles of marketing. And I'm like you, Rich, I'm old. I've been around a while.

I've done marketing across newspapers and magazines and a few different sort of online platforms. And the one thing you learn as you go along is that those principles don't change. The principles of, you need to understand who you serve.

You need to understand how you serve them. You need to have a point of difference. You need to be able to genuinely solve a problem for someone.

 

So if you can do that, and if you can do that effectively, it doesn't matter what changes come along. It doesn't matter what the medium is. It doesn't matter when the algorithm changes because you're basing what you do on those fundamental principles that will always be true.

 

And so that's really sort of core value that drives us is making sure that marketing is based on fundamental principles that we know don't change. The principles of human behaviour. They've been true for a thousand years.

 

Yeah. And I think, especially having that marketing experience, like if you look at what's out there, there's digital agencies, as you said, they're everywhere popping up. They've got no marketing experience at all.

They're just looking at other people going, you know what, I can do this straight off the bat. I can create ads on Facebook. They've got no idea about the psychology with customers and clients and all that kind of stuff.

So you pretty much nearly answered my third question, which was like, how do you approach developing effective marketing strategies for your clients and what principles that guide you into that?

 

Yeah. So the principles, absolutely fundamental principles of marketing, understand who is your client, understand how you help them and how you serve them. But I guess the way that we go about developing a campaign for a client is that everyone, every client's different, right? And so that's one of our principles too, is you can have a marketing blueprint, but you can't really have just like a cut and paste template because it doesn't work because everybody's business is different.

 

So when we're creating something for a client, we want to understand where they're at in their business journey. We want to understand their values and their goals. And that's not, and that's not, you know, just like a motherhood kind of stuff.

 

It's because that's really important in the messaging, because that's what attracts the kind of people who want to work with them, like in any industry, right? Whatever you do, unless you've developed something that no one's ever seen before, whatever you do, there's a hundred other businesses that do it. Some do it better, some do it worse, some do it cheaper, some do it dearer, but there's always someone else. And so what genuinely sets you apart is why you do it and how you do it and your values.

 

And that's going to attract people with the same values. So when we're creating a campaign, we want to understand all of that and we spend time scratching the surface and drilling down into that so that that can be infused into the messaging. Yeah, that's awesome.

 

Fantastic. So next one is, can you discuss some of like the notable successes that you've had through campaigns like that Orbit has spearheaded? We're very lucky. We've had a few, you know, sort of over the years.

I guess one of our early ones, and I'm only naming businesses that I'm pretty sure would be comfortable with me naming them, right. But one of the early ones would have been Nepean Valley Pure Water. And this was a business that had been around for a long time and they, you know, focused on traditional advertising, you know, newspaper, that sort of thing and networking.

And it hadn't really used social channels, but you know, the guy sort of, the business growth was kind of plateauing because he'd maxed out those opportunities. And he knew that there was something in social, but you know, he'd been running the business for a lot of years and he was kind of probably heading towards that retirement age. And so he didn't really know where to start.

Yep. Yep. So he came to us and, you know, we went through that.

We kind of drilled down into like what's important. Tell us about who your customers are. Tell us about who you want to be attracting.

And then core at the moment to every campaign is the offer, right. And not discount, but what is it that people can say yes to and how do you position that in a way that they look at it and think, oh, that's awesome. So, you know, we understood what it was like, what's the difference between your water and water that comes out of the tap or that you buy in a bottle.

Yeah. And we created messaging that appealed to people who thought that was going to be important, you know, so it was the health benefits. It was not using so much plastic in bottles, those sorts of things.

And he came to us in about October of that year. It's a few years ago now. He's like, I need to run a campaign for summer, right.

 

Cause that's when I pick up my clients. And three years later, we were still working with him and he'd had to increase his headcount. He's had to, had to buy a new truck.

He kind of maxed out the production capabilities.

 

Like Simon, take it easy, mate. Take it easy.

 

No joke. Two weeks after we turned the campaign on, he rang me up. He's like, can you turn that off? Cause we can't keep up with the number of coolers that are going out.

And so like, that was awesome. And the feeling that you get from genuinely helping somebody grow a business is cool. So that was one of the early ones, I guess one of the most recent ones. So he was a really established business.

Then we had a lady named Sammy. She came to us.

She was just starting her eyelash extension business, right. She was working in her partner's flooring shop. And she's like, this doesn't set me on fire.

She went out, she did a course on eyelash extensions. She's like, I'm going to start my business. He was a, he was a tradie.

So he built her this beautiful salon at home. She'd been doing it in marketing, not really getting anywhere. She came to us.

She's like, I want to work three days a week and I need to fill these spots. I'm not really sure what to do. Same deal, got to know her a little bit, a bit about her vibe, where she was located, who she was trying to attract and where she was located was kind of out of Western Sydney, but she was really trying to attract a slightly higher end clientele.

So we just created some visuals and a bit of messaging that we thought was going to appeal to that segment of the market. Cause she had this very, very sort of exclusive little studio and we pushed it out there. And so we're still working with her and she went from zero turnover to she's now doing about 10 grand a month, I think is okay for me to say, from not with no validated offer, with no customer base, with no messaging that had been tested or anything like that.

And like, that's a massive success story. And I love that. And I love that for her because she's now, Oh my goodness, how do I fit more clients in? She's added all of this extra money to the family income and life's good for them.

And I love that we were able to do that. Oh, that's all. And especially you're still working part-time and be able to increase that. Not so much now. She's like, we need a nanny. We're like two more days and we've got more customers.

 

Come on. Awesome. So yeah.

So with this like ever-changing landscape, we've got through digital marketing, different platforms as it is, and, you know, algorithms, how do you stay adaptable to ensure your clients remain ahead of the curve? Because it is changing.

It feels like it changes every day. And then, you know, you're logging to do something that you did two days ago and it's different and it's changed.

 

And you know, when it really happens, it happens the day before you get on a call with a brand-new client to walk them through a setup and you're like, Oh, I don't know what to do here. And you feel like such an idiot. But things change so often, but really in terms of getting results from campaigns in that landscape, it's really a matter of one constantly testing, constantly testing and trying new things, going across the data.

Like that tells you everything, you know, when you start to see KPIs change, like click-through rates drop or cost per acquisition go up or cost per thousand impressions go up, you know, that something's not working, you need to change something. And so you never ever get to that point where you can set a campaign and forget it. Even when it's performing really well, you're like, right, let's not touch that.

Let's wrap that in a bubble and then let's create and test something different because we know that that's going to fall over. And so when you've always got that plan B in the background being tested, then you're always ready with, you know, something new when whatever was working yesterday doesn't work. And what was working six months ago genuinely isn't working now.

Yeah, things have changed so quickly. Yeah, they do. They change so fast and algorithms change so quickly.

And a lot of that's legislative changes too around privacy and what the platforms can and can't do. It's not them being annoying. They want to deliver results because then we keep advertising with them.

But so much changes and it is such a dynamic and unpredictable landscape now because governments are really trying their hardest to regulate the social platforms and they're just, you know, almost squirming around to try and keep operating within the boundaries of what they're allowed to do and still get results.

 

Yeah, it's crazy times. And so looking at those challenges like businesses are having when it comes to digital marketing, how does Orbit like address those kind of challenges? Does it have any issue or are you just going to adapt to pretty much what's happening? And that is the key.

 

It's that willingness to adapt and that willingness to test and try new things and not get in that mindset that, well, this is how we've always done it, you know, Oh, but this worked. And that's why, you know, right at the top, I was talking about those, those templates, those cut and paste templates that don't work. Yeah.

 

Well, they rarely work because typically somebody did something and it worked really well. And so now they've built something around it and selling it as a product, but things have changed since they had that success. Cause that might've been a year ago.

 

Yeah. And so you, you've got to really have that, I guess, that mindset that we never really settled. We're never in that groove or the groove is we're testing and we're changing.

 

Um, that's one thing. And again, that goes back to the fundamental principles. Like we constantly need to make sure that we're not relying on, Oh, we can use stories to do this.

 

Or there's this fancy new template that will let us do that. It's about, well, what's the messaging? What's the problem that we're solving? Who's our ideal customer? How are we helping them? And then whatever the platform's doing, if that messaging's right, if that offer is right, then we're going to get the results that we're looking for. Yeah.

 

Oh, fantastic. So can you share any like insights or trends that are, that you're excited about in the, in digital marketing, like coming up and coming up this year as you, do you feel like there's anything new popping up or changes?

 

There's so much that's new that's popping up. I think you can't really have a conversation about online marketing without talking about AI at the moment.

 

Um, but the one trend that we're already starting to see with AI is the, like the desire to personalize it already, like individual and to put this human element back in, like it's exploded so fast and there are some incredible tools, like, you know, don't misunderstand my point. I love AI and we're adopting it as fast as we can. Like one of the biggest challenges is staying up with it.

 

Yeah. Like how do you keep across it?

 

Yeah. Um, but the, I guess one of the changes that, or one of the trends that we're seeing that I'm excited about is the fact that we want to take this AI content and then humanize it.

And that's what marketing is about. You know, you know, we talk B2C, we talk B2B, but really it's all person to person. It's P2P or it's, you know, H2H or it's B2H, it's business to human.

And so we want to humanize that content because AI will get there. There's no doubt, but at the moment, it still pumps out content that's kind of vanilla, that's kind of cookie cutter. And so it's a brilliant starting place, but then you want to take it and you want to add your little bit of personalization to it.

So it represents you as a person in your brand. And I love that because that's one of our principles. One of our fundamental principles is understanding and having a deeper connection with the person who you're helping.

 

And so I love seeing that already we're starting to look at AI generated content and go, how do we make this more human? Yeah. Yeah. It's crazy.

 

So what advice would you give businesses looking to prove their digital presence and leverage digital marketing more effectively at the moment?

Yeah, don't be afraid to fail. In fact, it's really important to fail because 80% of marketing doesn't work. Sometimes more than 80, even for, you know, even for professionals like us, 80% of what we do doesn't work, but it's a matter of then being able to understand, well, why didn't that work? What can we learn from that? And how do we take that to get us one step closer to what does work? So be prepared to be persistent and consistent and actually, you know, get excited when something doesn't work because that's an opportunity to learn and get you one step closer to what is going to work.

Because, you know, I guess what's so cool about digital marketing and marketing generally, I guess, is it only takes one thing to really work, you know, and it blows up and it can change the game for you. So every time you do something that doesn't quite work, you're one step closer.

 

So see failure as an opportunity to learn.

 

SIMON:
That's it, to learn from it and improve, you know. I was reading Arnold Schwarzenegger's book, you know, Be Useful, Seven Habits for People Who Are Useful, something like that. Be Useful, it's called.

And he was talking about failure, you know, in the gym, it's a really important part of muscle growth. You know, clearly, I'm not a bodybuilder, but I just love this book. And what they do is they deliberately push themselves to failure as far as they can go, because that's where the muscle growth comes from.

That is where the growth, yeah. And in marketing, it's the same. See, you know, you've got to look at marketing as a muscle.

The more you use it, the stronger it gets. And the more you push it to failure, the stronger it comes back next time. So don't be afraid to try something and it doesn't work.

 

That's awesome. What can I learn from that? Yeah, well, fantastic, mate. So looking ahead, what is Orbit's goals at the moment and aspirations for the future? Obviously, more AIs.

 

Yeah, it's to try and just to try and stay on top of all the changes, you know, everything that's changing on the platforms, new platforms coming and going. I read something; I can't even remember what it was called now today about is whatever it was called going to be the next big social media platform. That's why I'd never even heard of it before.

But, you know, but we had threads. And then what was the one that we had before that was rooms or something, rooms or locker rooms and that kind of died and disappeared. So they'll always come and go.

But I guess the goal for us is to continue being able to get the kind of outcomes for clients that we get in an ever changing landscape. It's to be able to keep focusing on those fundamentals, those core principles. Marketing, it works.

It always works. It's just a matter of being persistent enough to get it right. So, you know, my goal is growth.

Seven years, nearly seven years, we've been doing this and loving it and helped a lot of businesses. And and so I guess for the next 12 months, it's about helping us a little bit, too. Like, I'm really keen to grow our team and to grow our business and personally start enjoying a bit of the success of being a business owner.

 

 

Yeah, fantastic, mate. Yeah. All right.

So I'm sorry, we're going to talk a little bit about you now. So like outside of your professional life, some of your passions and hobbies, what do you love doing? What floats your boat?

 

Yeah, look, I love photography.

And in fact, you know, when I first thought about leaving corporate, you know, I thought I'm going to leave and I'm going to start a photography business. And then I kind of went, what are you doing? Like, you know, marketing is the thing that, you know, and that you're good at. And it lights me up, too.

But outside of that, I love photography. I've shot weddings. I've shot corporate events.

I still do one big corporate event every year. I shoot the lipstick lunch for youth off the streets. They always ring me.

They always have a really big gala lunch every year as a fundraiser. And they always ask me to come back and photograph it for them, which I love doing because it's such a great cause. And it keeps me in practice and landscape photography.

Yeah. So just getting out away from everyone, whether it's, you know, I like cityscape, too, but landscape, you know, particularly around the beach and the coast and a bit of motorcycling sometimes as well. Yeah.

We have a little Harley Davidson in the garage.

 

I share the same love with because I love photography myself. And years ago, I studied at the photography school at Paddington, you know, a long time ago. Now, it's probably a few years ago.

But yeah, it's a tough gig trying to get professional work. So, yeah, I have to stick with my full time job at the time. Yeah.

 

And it's so much work, isn't it? You know, you spend like 10 hours shooting a wedding and spend a week editing the photos. Editing, yeah. And the gear, like, you know, all the gear I've got now is all outdated, you know, and I'm like, I can't believe I'm going to sell this camera for like nothing now, you know, because I sold all my studio gear.

 

Yeah. Yeah. It was just taking up so much space and I wasn't using it.

 

I had some of these really big, beautiful strobes, you know, the big studio strobes because we did a few like end of year photos for dance schools. We did one that had like nearly 500 students. Yeah.

 

Wow.

And it's awesome, but it's so exhausting. And so I sold all the studio gear and I've just got my two cameras and a few lenses and that's it now.

 

Yeah. Awesome. So can you share any like memorable travel experience? I know you've been away a few times and destinations that have left a lasting impression on you that you probably go back to.

 

Yeah. Like I guess I'm lucky I've traveled a bit, a bit of it for work and a bit of it for personal. You know, my first big trip was to Las Vegas for a bicycle show.

And I was in the bicycle industry and my boss sent me over to Las Vegas. I was about 25 or something. But we've been to New York twice and I just, I absolutely love it.

And I just, I can't wait to go back. Like I would happily go and live there for 12 months. Yeah.

If I could, you know, I remember the first day of our first trip there, you know, we, we arrived there. I don't know, it was late at night. It was maybe 11 o'clock.

We were staying on the Upper West side for anyone who knows New York. And I didn't really sleep that well. And we were on Broadway on the Upper West side and right opposite us was this big market, like this big fairway market.

And, you know, and it was one o'clock in the morning and it was still pumping, you know, and I couldn't sleep. And I'm like, this is incredible. And then I had a bit of sleep and then I popped out again.

It was, I don't know, half past two in the morning or something. And it was shut to customers, but that's when they restocked the shop. And so there's trucks pulling up and there's forklifts going at two o'clock in the morning.

And it's like the city's pumping out there still. And then first morning walking around, you know, I got up really early, went for a walk to take some photos because see escape of course. And I'm like, I just instantly felt at home.

And it's really weird because it's such a big busy city, but it just felt really calm and relaxed and at home. And like, like there's this some sort of calling, like I belong there, which is weird. Cause like, I love being an Aussie, but we spent two weeks there then.

And we've been back for another two week holiday since. And, you know, we're kind of counting our pennies going, right. Can we get back there again next year? So I can see a new orbit marketing office popping up in lower Manhattan.

I think, well, there's a, there's an agency called Droga5, which I think is owned by an Aussie guy. And they've got, we were, we were down there this time. We were catching a ferry or looking to catch a ferry across to, to Brooklyn and we're down near wall street and they've got offices down there.

And I'm like, are you kidding me? Like that would be a dream, an advertising agency office down here. But I think that's a really long way off yet. Yeah.

 

You never know, mate. You never know. You're still a young snapper.

So any books or podcasts or films that have a significant impact on your life or influenced your perspective? Books or films?

 

Like, yeah, yeah. There are, like, I'm going to go out on a limb here. I'm going to out myself as a preachy self-righteous vegan.

Because how do you know if someone's a vegan? Don't worry, they're going to tell you. They're going to tell you. Don't worry.

 

I'm married, I was married to a vegan.

 

Are you? I didn't know that.

Yeah, Rachel was a vegan for what? Oh, nearly 12 years.And now she's vegetarian. Yeah. So

 

I think Cowspiracy and Forks Over Dives, like, had a massive impact on me, just to kind of open my eyes and realise, you know, some of the things that happen in intensive farming practices and what it's doing to the environment and stuff like that.

So, yeah, I'm not going to turn this into a soapbox. But those two films had a massive impact on me. Yeah, yeah.

 

And especially some of the Netflix documentaries recently have blown me away, you know, in regards to eating, especially in the States. If you're living in America and you're eating beef or chicken or anything like that. Have you seen that one? Yeah.

 

Yeah. Horrendous. Yeah.

 

Horrendous. Really sad. All right.

So let's change the topic. So how do you unwind and recharge after a busy day?

 

Yeah, look, we run and we swim, you know, we run probably twice a week. We go swimming three nights a week.

Swimming, I find a bit like meditation. Yeah. You know, it's just you just follow that black line up and down the pool, focus on your breathing.

And, you know, before you know it, 2Ks are done and you get out feeling great. Those little endorphins are rushing around. You know, I don't feel guilty eating a pizza afterwards because I know I've done my workout.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So definitely running and swimming.

And then I do, I just play like mindless games on my phone sometimes as well. I'll sit there in front of the television. Actually I do like New York Times app has got two free, it's got a few free games, but Wordle, which I know a few people play is really cool.

 And there's another one, Connections, where you've got to like group the 16 words into groups of four and there's some thread that runs through them. So it's good to kind of get your brain doing something different. Yeah.

 

Yeah. You know, those kinds of things help me unwind. That's something on my agenda, my to-do list is learn how to swim. You normally see my brothers in Bondi, getting fucking Bondi rescued.

 

Getting rescued. Yeah.

 

I can do a mean dog paddle for about 40 seconds.

And then you're like, help me.

 

Yeah.

So, so any like interesting like projects outside of work that you've got planned as well for yourself?

 

Yeah. Yeah. Look, there's a couple of things that, that I'm working on.

I'm always a bit of a sucker for, for a cause. Yeah. And so at the moment there's, there's two things I guess that I'm working on.

One is the Lakeside Festival, which is a music festival that happens up here in Foster where we live now. And I was on the committee of the music festival last year. This year I've kind of backed off and said, I can't do that because too much work, but I'll run your socials for you.

That's fine. And so I'm going to be looking after that. And then the other one is, um, pink up your town, which is, yeah, so it hasn't been done up here before.

So I've got a couple of, um, like-minded people together and we're kicking off, pick up, pink up Foster Tunn Curry, which is like a fundraiser for McGrath foundation. And, uh, so we're working towards, um, our launch event for that at the moment. So that's going to be really fun.

Like I always feel like, you know, I guess that term give back gets a bit overused, but I feel like as a business owner, you know, we're in fortunate position to be able to do things like that. We do take a lot out of, you know, our communities, you know, we get paid. That's how we got the skills to do it, to help.

And we can genuinely make a difference there. So yeah. So there are a couple of fun projects that I'm working on right now.

 

Yeah. Oh, fantastic. Well, talking about Foster, cause obviously you, it's a bit, you were in the tree change and now you're in the sea change.

 

How has that impacted you? Is that, it's been awesome living near the water?

 

Oh, it's incredible. Like it's, it's for those, for anybody who's been up here, you know, you'll know how beautiful it is. I was talking to someone yesterday, um, you know, new client and they're like, Oh God, we love Foster.

You know, we're up there every year. Um, and it is, it's a really beautiful area and I guess it's, it's allowed us, so on the plus side, it's allowed us to be a lot more active because I guess as we get older, we want to make sure that we're, that we were keeping active. So it's why we can, you know, run regularly and ride our pushes around cause it's flat up here, which is really nice.

And when we lived in the mountains, it was too hilly for that sort of caper.

And especially daylight saving and you've got that extra, you know, a few hours in the evening and yeah. It's literally a 10 minute walk from the beach.

There's one mile beach near us, which is a great surf beach. And we walk there at lunchtime in the summer and have a swim and, and walk back and we haven't really taken any more than a lunch break. It's awesome.

 

That is fantastic.

 

It definitely put the brakes on, on business for a little while because our, our hub was Western Sydney where we were and that's where our client base was and that's where we were known and that's where we're really building a profile. And so it was a big decision, you know, to make the move.

Yeah, it was a big business decision. Yeah, it was, it was huge. We knew we'd take a bit of a hit and we definitely did, but it's made us sort of look for alternative avenues of business development.

Um, and you know, all of our businesses, Western Sydney based before, and now we've got clients, you know, all up and down the East coast of Australia and we're looking at, you know, how do we launch a campaign into the, into the U S as well at the moment. So ultimately it's, it's been good, but it's, it was a, it was a big challenge when we, and we did it right in the middle of COVID, which didn't happen. So yeah, yeah.

In retrospect, it really was. Um, but, but for our personal lives, it's been great. Oh, it's been awesome.

And I, and I think that's the thing you gotta put yourself first and then everything else will follow. And now, especially now our audience is not, you know, um, the guys in our local suburbs, it's the world, it's worldwide now, global, you know? So, um, and I think, yeah. And, and I think going back to one of your previous questions, you know, what would you say to businesses, small businesses looking to, you know, level themselves up using social, get out of that mindset that your customers are within walking distance of where you are.

E-commerce businesses are great at that, but a lot of brick-and-mortar stores aren't. And most brick-and-mortar stores will have a product they can ship. Get a Shopify store, promote yourself to the whole world.

And especially as Aussies, if we're marketing into Europe and the States without exchange rate with the Aussie drachma, you know, the way that it is, um, you're really cost effective as an option for overseas buyers.

 

And there's no, nothing stopping you from reaching them and talking to them. Yeah.

Yeah. I've always talked to like colleagues and people that I know they're in, in those kinds of retail outlets and make, you need to get out and get a Shopify store, do the same thing, you know, don't wait for people to walk in and walk by and, you know, because no one's going to come in, you know, all these factors and issues, um, but online, you can market to the world. Yeah.

We are so lucky. And then added with awesome digital marketing and, and working with a good marketing company, you'll definitely, uh, you know, take you to further heights, but no, that's awesome, man.

 

Well, we were actually end of our, um, our little podcast, but, um, yeah, but I really appreciate you coming on board and, um, and thank you mate so much for your time and yeah, we'll, we'll have to do it again with another subject matter.

 

Probably talk about a bit of photography.

 

Yeah, mate. Yeah, for sure. It's been a blast. Um, I mean, I always love chatting to you, you know, that we always have a, have a good laugh and a good giggle, but, um, I really appreciate you asking me to come on your podcast, rich. Um, it's been a blast.

 

That's been really fun. Thanks. Oh, thanks so much, Simon.

 

We'll enjoy the rest of the day and, um, yeah, we'll definitely, definitely chat soon. Yep. Cheers, mate.

Thank you.