RICH:
All right, hey guys, it's Rich here from The Rich Mix and on another episode, and I'm really fortunate enough to have Jack with me from Modern Preventive Body Piercing from Logger. So thanks for coming on, Jack. Really appreciate it, mate.
JACK:
No worries, mate. Thanks for having me. No, no worries.
RICH:
Yeah, look, Jack and I, we've known each other for a while now, and Jack did our course with us with EZE Training. How long ago now, Jack, has it been? 2016. I think it might have been around November 2016, maybe, so a little while ago.
JACK:
Nearly eight years, mate. Pretty crazy. Yeah, pretty crazy to think about, actually, yeah.
RICH:
And you were back then, you were probably a real different person, different mindset, you know what I mean? Oh, totally different. A much, much different person. Like, I'd already been operating a business, I think, before then.
JACK:
I think I was looking through my Autoclave log book the other day, because mine broke, actually, and I've seen it was 2015, I put my first ever Autoclave. Cycled through. Cycled through, yeah.
RICH:
So the business is called Modern Primitive Body Piercing. Yes. So tell us a little bit about your journey from the course to running your business.
So you started running the business prior to doing the course?
JACK:
Well, see, my business was already established in Wagga for a long time. I'd bought it off someone who'd owned it forever. And so it was already up and running.
And I got body piercing lessons by that man just on the premises. And so he helped me out a lot as well, starting off the business. So I'd already had a little bit to do with body piercing before I’d gone and done a course with EZE Training. It was more just hands-on. There wasn't a lot of theory with him.
He was pretty much just like, bring someone in and we'll, you know, start piercing straight away. But what made you, what was that? What made you want to do it? Like back then, what were you? Look, I was always, I always loved tattoos and piercings. The way they looked on people, the way that people could express themselves with it.
I thought it was a really cool way just to, just a really cool thing to have for yourself with piercings and tattoos. And so I used to get piercings off this man, off his business since I was a young teenager. And he got crook.
He got really crook. And he only worked across the road from me from a little cafe at a window that I used to work at. And so I seen one day that he was closing down and he never mentioned anything about it.
And so just talking to him for a few days and thought, you know what? I'd love to pierce. And so I thought, can you teach me how to piece before you leave? And he was all for it. And then eventually I sort of seen the clientele that he had coming through the doors and the business that he had and I offered to buy the place off him and that's how I got into it.
RICH:
And here you are now, mate, eight years later.
JACK:
I know, I know. I'm very, very blessed to still have it going.
Especially only getting it so young and sort of being a little bit probably irresponsible. I was only 19 when I started.
RICH:
So back then, your current partner, you weren't with each other back then? No.
JACK:
No, no, no. She's been with me the majority of the journey, like most of it. So she's actually a giant big part of why Modern Primitive is today, like what it is and how many clients I do have.
Yeah, she's fantastic.
RICH:
And that's it. Running your own special business, you need that support from your partner, especially having a little family, because it is a big juggle, a big juggle half the time with kids and things, you know? Absolutely.
JACK:
Absolutely. So how many kids? Two kids? Two kids, two little girls.
RICH:
Yeah, just like I've got one crazy boy, mate, which is...
JACK:
Is he the youngest?
RICH:
He's the youngest. Yeah, Charlie's three. He's a bloody maniac. The youngest are just maniac.
JACK:
Mix a boy with the youngest, they're definitely going to be the most wild, for sure.
RICH:
Yeah, mate. How old is the daughter? Five?
JACK:
Five and two.
RICH:
Five and two. Okay. Oh, very similar.
JACK:
Yeah, definitely. They say terrible twos, but mate, terrible threes, mate. Oh, my God.
Terrible twos are just when they start learning everything, and then they just get better at it.
RICH:
They get really naughty. Yeah, 100%.
Little cheeky Buggers.
JACK:
Yeah, my youngest, she's wild. Wild, wild, wild.
Holy dooly.
RICH:
And that's the good thing about running a business. You've got that juggle about work with family life, and you know what I mean, fit things in.
JACK:
Definitely. Working a full-time job, it's challenging. It's hard to do it.
RICH:
It is. You really need to have your own business to be able to work that out. Yeah, 100%, and we're pretty blessed.
JACK:
My partner, because of the business, has been able to spend a lot of time home with my daughters, which she loves, and I think has really benefited them massively as little humans, just to have that time at home with mum, for sure.
RICH:
That's awesome. So, education-wise, even with us and with the previous owner, what was your experience even with us with the course and your influence with your current career path? Did that help you a lot, doing the course?
JACK:
Oh, for sure.
I think one of the biggest things with you guys is to see your passion about body piecing. Going and learning with you, not that I've gone and learned with anyone else or done any courses with anyone else, but you could see that it wasn't just a money grab for you guys. You genuinely wanted to produce good quality body pieces and have them loaded with all the information that they can possibly store in their brain, and it was just a very inviting space and a stress-free space.
My original trainer, he was fantastic as well. He was more so of a just-get-in-and-get-it-done sort of fella. You know what I mean? Just hook in.
There's not much. First day, you said you want to do it. Second day, let's try and line up 10 people to do a few things on.
You know what I mean? There wasn't too much easing into it, which I sort of love because you get into that situation. You either sink or swim, I think, when it comes to those sorts of intense situations. So, I sort of like that as well.
Doing that and then seeing you guys have a completely different approach to the training was fantastic. It was really, really good and helped me a lot be confident starting off a business.
RICH:
Especially when you're on your own and you're in the room and something goes on, you're like, oh my God, but you just have to go, okay, you've got to fake it till you make it.
Just be calm, relaxed. That's right. As long as the way you communicate to them is calm and relaxed, everything's sweet, you know, because you know what the end game is.
JACK:
A hundred percent. Yeah, definitely. It was definitely very intimidating the first time I pierced by myself.
It was intense. You don't have that person looking over your shoulder to tell you if you're doing the right thing or whether you line something up properly or this person's anatomy is right. You're sort of then left to your own to try and just dictate what you can and can't do or where you can and can't put this piercing.
Do you know what I mean? I think it's very intense to get the first piercing out of the way. I think as you're dealing with all these different crazy personalities and different age groups, it can be quite challenging as well. It can be for sure.
RICH:
And you're a Wagga, so it's a bit more of a country town. Everyone kind of knows each other as well a little bit.
JACK:
They do.
RICH:
And you get good recognition, which is awesome. I was only just talking to someone in Griffith the other day and she was telling me, oh yeah, I know Jack Wogger. I actually sent some of my clients to Jack.
I said, oh, awesome, because she was a little bit tricky. And I said, you know what? Reach out to Jack. I gave her actually your mobile number and she's going to give you a tingle.
JACK:
Did you really? Yeah. Oh, beautiful. Fantastic.
RICH:
I told her your Insta page as well. I said, just reach out. Jack's easy going.
At least if you have any questions, give him a tingle. Yep. Yep.
JACK:
For sure. Very happy to answer any questions. Thanks, man.
RICH:
You're a legend. So how are you going, like establishing your brand and, you know, like attracting customers? Is it more about just looking up, just doing a good job, looking after customers, customers come back, or do you have a strategy in place to try to bring more people in?
JACK:
Look, there's not a strategy in place to try and bring more people in. For the past, probably three or four years has definitely been the busiest time I've had, like, especially when COVID hit.
Like, there wasn't much advertisement I had to do when that ended. I was just smashed with people. And so having such a huge amount of clients over those years has just sort of, it's turned into word of mouth, and I've just always had people coming in and had good recommendations.
But probably, like, back to what else you said, what else you said just before, it's just looking after my clients and making sure that they know that if anything goes wrong or if they have any problems, that I'm only a phone call away, or they can just walk into my shop whenever they want. Like, I even tell people, actually, with your advice, please, I would love to see you again in two weeks, three weeks, just drop your head in, let me have a look at it. And if you've got any questions or have any problems, just make sure that they know that I would love if they did that and not stay away if they've got any problems.
That's it. Just creating a good relationship with my clients, because I want my piercings to heal well, and I want people to be happy with their piercings, you know? That's always worked for me, getting them to say, like, yeah, just drop in any time. I always say, these are my hours.
RICH:
And they love it, because it's like an open-door policy all the time, you know? And they just go, wow, this is really cool. Where some people, it's more just burn your client in and out, in and out, and forget about them, because they've got to do a certain number of numbers. It's not about numbers, it's just about quality, not quantity.
And eventually, they just come back. So do you do, like, mail outs to your clients or anything like that, like email and stuff? I don't know.
JACK:
No, I'm not into it.
I don't have a lot of that sort of stuff set up, which I probably should. You know, that's a great thing to do. And just to keep on top of it and see how everyone's going.
RICH:
Because some people, what I've learned over the years, is they'll just let their piercing just turn terrible and just, like, wait for a good three or four months until they come back and say, hey, is this going to fall out of my head soon?
JACK:
Yeah, I would much rather people come back earlier than that, so we can say that they want to take it out. So a mailing out system would probably be good. Yeah, well, we'll talk and I can help you with that anyway.
RICH:
Because what's a good thing to do is, because over those years since you've started, you know, you're getting email addresses on your consent forms all the time. And if you have a box saying, if I just send you an email, then you have them all on a special database. And then through some of these email, like, sites, platforms, every week, you can just do an email.
Just, hey, touch and base. These are the new little tricks, this is a new stock we've got on board. You know, here's some helpful hints on aftercare.
Just little things about the business. And it's just very, they're not really selling stuff, but just helping them. And they see these emails and it's really good.
So when you do eventually have a special, you can just pump it out there and they go, wow, this is so cool, you know? You can have a half price special once every, you know, I don't know, a month or whatever, just one day, half price piercings. And on the quietest day you've got, and all of a sudden you'll be banked up, you know, with people. ;
JACK:
Yeah, that's awesome.
Honestly, I've had little thoughts about that. Even just yourself, like, I'd love to have just a conversation with you one day just about improving the business and where I should probably head to the next step getting into these later years with the business.
RICH:
Yeah, awesome.
I'll send you one of my, the Piercing Profits book out to you. How's that?
JACK:
Please do.
RICH:
It's got all that stuff on there, it's awesome.
I'll sign it for you.
JACK:
Yeah, thank you. Awesome, man.
RICH:
So, tell us about a typical day at the business, at Modern Privity Pottery Piercing. What's your typical day?
JACK:
I've got such a chilled sort of like, since I work for myself, I only work there, I've got such a chilled sort of start of the day. It's sort of good, like, before my daughter started primary school, I'd be staying back a little bit later or trying to squeeze cleaning into the last sort of hours of the day.
Yeah. But now she started super early. I don't start till 10 o'clock every day and we've got to drop her to school by quarter to nine.
So, I get there really early and I just clean everything, make sure everything's good, I'm all stocked up with jewellery, equipment, sort my consent forms out and then I just hang out, man, until I get my people in. So, my busiest days, I'll probably, my busiest days I can definitely be doing anywhere from like 15 to 25 piercings a day.
RICH:
Yeah, awesome.
JACK:
Which is pretty busy for me.
Oh, Its very busy. Especially in a little place like Wagga Wagga, I've got my little, I'm in an arcade and so like my arcade only has three people working in there at the moment.
There's a lot of shops vacant, but we're very close, we're very close. And so, we get around and see, like, just talk to each other for a little bit and get updated and we've actually got a tattooist moving in directly next door to me.
RICH:
Wow, that's awesome.
JACK:
Which I'm so excited for, like, it's just going to bring, it's just going to bring a bunch of clients into that little arcade and especially any shop would have been nice, but to have it being a tattooist and quite a reputable tattooist who's been in Wagga for a long time, it's fantastic. And so, the day, the day I'm on Primitive is just me cleaning, hanging out and piercing pretty much.
RICH:
And what days are you working, Tuesday to Saturday?
JACK:
Tuesday to Saturday, yeah.
RICH:
Yeah, cool. So, Sunday, Monday off.
JACK:
Yeah, I've always been up and down about working Mondays.
Like, it could be beneficial to me, maybe, but I really enjoy having a Monday off with my kids. Yeah, man. Look, if people want you, they'll come.
It doesn't matter. You know what I mean?
RICH:
That's right. Because in your head, you think, oh, I could open up and then you're like, oh, only just like three days or I'm busy, but you need your time out.
You need, you need jack time. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's right. Especially with an industry like body piercing or tattooing, I guess they get pretty closely tied in together.
JACK:
Yeah. I don't think, I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but no matter how long you've been doing it for, it can be quite a stressful environment when it comes to different people, different anatomies and dealing with a lot of panic attacks. Like, in that sort of industry, you see a lot of people freaking out and like, it does get way easier as you do it for longer.
But it's still like, without you even thinking about it, I think it takes a toll on your mental health. 100%. And it's exhausting.
RICH:
Like, you know, we say it's quite exhausting because you're really putting yourself 150% out there all the time on the cover. All the time. As soon as someone's walking the door, you're putting your heart and soul into it.
So you're not just being half-assed, you're really putting it. So when everyone leaves, you're like, oh my God, that was like such a hectic day. I just can't wait to get a cup of tea, you know? Yeah, definitely.
JACK:
But yeah, you really need to chill out because it is exhausting. I know that, you know, even through training. Yeah, man, of course.
You're kind of always switched on all the time. So you really need, definitely you need that Sunday, you need that family time, you need that Monday to reset for yourself so you can be switched on again the next day, you know? Definitely, yeah. You need a bit of chill time.
And the concentration too, like the concentration on getting these piercings correct all the time, it can be intense. Because I feel like when you get that confidence, especially maybe when you're first starting and you're like, I'm going to breeze through this, that's when you will make mistakes. When you start to fall off the concentration a little bit and try and treat it like just a normal job, that's when it happens.
RICH:
Yeah, because only one little mistake in a little country town, doesn't matter where you are, mate, people talk about it. That's exactly right. I always say, even with aftercare, really hammer them with it.
It doesn't matter if they say, oh, I've already had piercing before. Who cares? Hammer them. Because when you don't, they will tell if something goes bad, they'll blame you anyway.
Even though it's their fault. Definitely. Definitely.
JACK:
A hundred percent.
RICH:
So awesome. So is there any like, what's popular at the moment? What have you been doing a lot of, you reckon, piercing wise?
JACK:
I think the most popular thing with me and has been for a long time, uh, ear cartilage, different ear cartilage arrangements, like, like all sorts of ear cartilages, which I love doing. It's something that is like really satisfying to me to see ear cartilage piercings come together. Yeah.
RICH:
Not having too much, not having too little or like, I think it's just such a cool area to pierce on your body. It's almost like, obviously they're there to hear, but there's so many different little pieces of your ear cartilage that you can pierce. I think it's really, really fun too.
JACK:
Um, but that's, that's probably what the most popular thing is for me. I've moved away a little bit, not purposely, but moved away a little bit from like, yeah, more intense sort of piercing. Not that I do anything too hectic, you know, like, um, but yeah, I've moved away a little bit from that.
It's not as popular as it used to be. And so for me personally, anyway, I think that the, having being in a little country town that everyone sort of follows what each other does. And so there's not too much, um, there's still the odd few that come in and get the different bits and pieces, but the ear cartilages for me is the trend at the moment in Wagga Wagga.
That ear curation where they, because like back in the day,
RICH:
Creation, that's what I was thinking. You know what they're doing? They're always getting like, you know, you talk to any young girl, you know, even my wife, back in the day, they'll always pierce right on the edge of, you know, of the lip of your ear. And they'll say, oh, my friends had this.
I'll say, mate, you realize doing it there, it's never going to heal. You can sleep on it. It's the worst.
Let's do it. It's a shocker. And then when you do upper ear cartilage or inside the conch, or you can do two in a conch, it's awesome because you do something that really looks cool and it's kind of safe in there.
You know, it's definitely well, and it's rock solid. And I'm the same. I love ear cartilage because it is a long term, you know, piercing that they'll have forever.
It's not a gimmick piercing, you know?
JACK:
That's a good, that's a good point, actually. Well, yeah, it is a long term thing to people because they're also as much as they look awesome, they're subtle. They're not something that's going to be intense.
And when you do change a style of yourself, especially getting piercings when you're young and going into getting older, there's something that you can always keep in, change the jewelry in. And yeah, they're fantastic. Yeah.
RICH:
The Helix, like the amount of times I tell my clients, like, mate, the Helix is going to be one of the hardest piercings to heal on the body. It has to be. Never heal.
And all the kids love it. They're like, oh, I love this. And I said, oh, how long was it? When's the last time? Do you feel like it's healed it? No, it hasn't healed.
It's been two years and you still want to get it done there, you buffet, you know? Yeah. Get rid of it. So what advice would you give someone wanting to get into the business? What advice would I give? Take it slow.
I think is one of the biggest things with me that I found I tried to rush into a lot of things when it came to like, just wanting to do all the best piercings and all the best this and that. I think with confidence comes practice and taking things steady, not just trying to jump out and do the craziest piercings in the world straight away and appealing to every single person. I think starting off slow with basic piercings and getting your head wrapped around people's anatomies and different people and starting off with those is really beneficial.
I sort of did that with my piercing career later on, you know what I mean? Sort of took a step back and started just pushing a little bit more of the basic piercings and then starting to get a bit more confidence with other piercings. Not that there was too many that's like too difficult, which is too far out. Like I haven't done any of the sort of more hectic piercings, but yeah, I think just starting off small.
You don't need to. And I think if you stick with the basics all around and just do your own spin on it, and that's the thing. And I think being a piercer, being working in this industry like personal service industry, I think the biggest thing is you need to be a really good communicator, isn't it? Definitely.
You probably meet a lot of young guys and you can't get two words out of them. They just want this. You try to talk and it's like they're like conversation killers.
They don't say anything, you know? They don't. No, they don't. It is honestly very, very hard to get a conversation out of some people.
Yeah. And you're throwing everything at them and you're not getting anything. You know what you've got to do is in front of them, you've got to text them.
As soon as they walk in, can I have your number please mate? Sure, no worries. That's the only way they communicate, half these young buggers, you know? It is. Yeah, it is.
And it is such a problem, isn't it? I even call myself these days staring at my phone too much. Me and my partner have only just talked about like really limiting the screen time, especially around the kids, you know, like I want to be present with them and show that that's not what life is about, is staring at a fine screen. Oh my God.
The other day I said, Rachel and I say exactly the same thing. And the other day we're sitting there, I'm on my phone, Lola's on her iPad, Charlie's on his iPad, Rachel's on her phone, we just sit there like crazy zombies for that one minute, you know? It's the way that it is. Oh my gosh.
It's just the way the world's going, like, and the entertainment, I think just as a parent sometimes when you're a bit run down, sometimes you can just go, here, have this for a sec, I'm just going to take a bit of a mental breather. And yeah, I think it's okay for a certain amount. I'm like, I don't think it's like a super, super bad thing, but definitely limited, you know, I've got to try and limit it a bit better for sure.
Oh, no, no. A hundred percent. It's like it's such an easy way out, you know? Sometimes.
Yeah. I was late to the TikTok. I didn't get TikTok until about a year ago.
I've deleted all my social medias years and years ago. And then I kept sending all my friends YouTube reels and they were like, come on, mate, grow up. It's time to get TikTok.
You get on TikTok. It's like never ending. It's like, oh, my God.
If you know, you're like, where did half an hour just go? You know? Oh, it's gone. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
It's a time killer. Always watch yours. You got the best TikToks, man.
So inspiring. And I feel like I need a bit of motivation for the day to jump on the bridge and see what he's doing. And it's funny.
I think you do. Like, I think I know being like an older dad, you know, with Lola, I sometimes look at myself when I was younger and when you're younger back then, different generation of parents, you know, your parents really all they'd say to you is, you know, be here. Do this.
Eat this. Go here. You know, it's like you never get any problem, really.
And now we can spend really talk to them. We can talk to our kids, communicate well with them. We could tell them that, you know, motivate them, talk, you know, it's get them in a different mindset on being definitely positive.
And obviously, social media and what they see online on TV is a hindrance at times. But we're really lucky that we communicate a lot better to this generation of kids as parents now in this day and age. A hundred percent.
Definitely. Definitely. Our childhood was very different, you know? Yeah, for sure.
Definitely. I always say, like, you ever see those nostalgic TikToks that pop up and you see things from when you were just like a kid or like in between like five and ten years old? Yeah, yeah. I can't believe this is ten years ago that this stuff was here.
Like and some of the technology to see where it is now in such a short amount of time is insane. Like it blows my mind sometimes. Yeah.
A hundred percent. It's crazy. Crazy.
I think about like AI now, like AI is taking over so much like now people's businesses where I give example, you can connect AI to your Insta so you don't have to reply to anyone anymore. So what it does, you get you put all your information about your business, modern primitive body piecing, everything you know about it into it. It'll absorb all that, know everything about your business.
So when clients send you a message, it replies like your business. Yeah. I know.
Isn't it crazy? Wild, wild. So, yeah, you wouldn't even have to do anything these days. You know, it's just it's just, yeah, it's taking over everything, you know.
So, yeah, our kids like especially how quick they are on iPads and be able to do things that are such a young age. Imagine them, you know, me back in my Commodore 64 back then. Man, I am so bad with technology and like I'm, you know, 28.
And so like I thought, you know, I'd be I'd keep up with it for sure. Growing up ever since I did delete social media and I haven't gone on to need computers or anything like that for a while. I can't do anything on them and it's like scary.
I've got to I've got to try and my partner, she's amazing. She knows how to do everything. She is incredible when it comes to marketing, knowing what to do with social media.
She is fantastic. And so I'm so blessed to have her and let her do all that sort of stuff for me. And I'll even send you some links to some really cool free courses that you can do that are awesome and really excel just the learning level.
Because I'm always learning new stuff every day. I'm watching something or learning something because it's just evolving so quick. So, yeah, learn something today and go, oh, yeah, I did that, mate.
In two weeks time that things change, you know? Yeah, a hundred percent. And yeah, it is. It is like that, isn't it? Like in two weeks, something's different.
Yeah, it's completely different. Yeah. And that's why I do need to get into it a little bit more and have a little bit more to do with the marketing side of social media.
She's only just started her own business after being a mom for five years. What's she doing? She's a lash tech, actually. She's just started being a lash tech.
Yeah, just just for something for her to do. She's always wanted to do it and she's been keen to get back out in the workforce. But she wanted to sort of have the same freedom with the children when it comes to being able to look after them.
You know, we want to go on holidays, we can go on holidays and just spend a lot of time with them. So she wanted to do her own thing and she's done amazing with it. She's done really fine in a short amount of time.
And from lash tech, she can get into cosmetic tattooing after that. There you go. Yeah, it's awesome because that's just a growing industry as well, you know? It is.
We can help her out with that course as well. Yeah, that's right. You can.
Yeah, you can. So have you had any memorable experiences through all stories, funny little classic stories in the business? Jeez, heaps. Yeah? All my memorable ones are just people fainting.
I know that's so bad. Isn't that so horrible to say? But I've had some shockers on me in the past. Yeah.
Funny ones. Look, the funniest one, the one that comes to my mind is like I had a kid and I had a young lady come in one day and I'd known her for a while. I could see her working around the shop, walking back and forth.
And she was on the phone. I was like, oh, I wonder what she's doing. Took her age to come in.
I was like half an hour. And she popped her head in, seeing how it's going. And she's like, I'm actually here for a piercing.
I was like, oh, why didn't you say so? Let's go do it. And she's like, oh, I'm just, you know, I'm a little bit nervous. And she was so scared.
I'd never done a piercing on her before and she was terrified. I had to trick her into walking up the stairs basically. I got stairs at my shop and so for about 45 minutes, we're just doing like little baby steps towards the piercing room.
And so like picking jewellery and I was like, just sit down. We'll just put some dots on and we won't do it at all. Don't worry about it.
Like, I'm not making you want to do it. And just ended up doing step by step by step because I could tell that she really wanted it. And she'd been talking about doing it for ages.
And she'd finally taken the steps to come down to my shop and talk to me about it. And yeah, forever, we just like, we're trying to get this piercing done. And she just like, I just have to take tiny little steps to get it to lay down, get the piercings done.
Yeah, so that was pretty funny. That was pretty funny. Had to do that.
But nothing stands out as crazy funny forever. I guess the business has just been building so much over these last few years. That's all I've been concentrating on.
Yeah, the fainters, man, the fainters, they're wild. I think the fainters just keep on getting to breathe big deep. Yeah.
If they just stop breathing, that's the biggest issue. They stop breathing, lack of oxygen, and they faint. I try to kind of get them to a meditation type process.
From the beginning, they walk in the door till they walk out, getting that nice deep breaths. But it doesn't matter what you do, they've built it up so much that when it comes down to do it, it's like, oh my God, I can't believe it's done. And then they end up fainting.
That must be what it is. That big adrenaline drop, because that's what happens. I've never, ever done a piercing on my nine years of body piercing, where someone's fainted before getting a piercing.
It's always directly after, and you can see that they've just hyped themselves up, and then they're like, oh, that wasn't that bad, and then gone. And that's what it is. Because if I tell you, I say, all right, Jack, I'm going to book you in next Tuesday.
We're going to be doing a dermal on you. You'll be thinking about that every day, every minute. Oh my God, I can't believe I'm getting that next week.
And then when it comes to the day, you're like, oh my God, it's finally done. All that is just rushing to you, and you're like, oh my God, that instant relief that it's done. It's just like you feel like you're floating on air.
You just can't handle it anymore. You end up fainting most of the time. 100%.
Yeah, you do. See, the thing with me now that I've gotten into business, like I'm very similar to yourself. We try and get them into like a bit of a meditative state.
So they're not really stressed out. I like people to be have a little bit of adrenaline running through them just to sort of manage their pain a bit more with certain things. I think I feel like it helps out and not being completely like, oh, this isn't going to hurt at all.
You know, let them know that there's going to be a bit of a steam, but it's going to be it's completely manageable, completely bearable. It'll be over in two seconds. I'll be fine.
But yeah, still. Yeah. Trying to get them just to breathe and relax.
And I think that's really, really good. The ones that watch now, they are the ones that fainted most of the time. I don't let anyone in my piercing room these days like no one.
There's not many people very keen on it, but I find it more comfortable and I can sort of pay more attention to me and my client and the piercing rather than having to start a conversation with someone else or having to worry about another person working the client up as much. And also the Dane, like the consent forms for my client, that's not for anyone else. And if they, you know, end up falling over and really hurting themselves.
That's it. And insurance won't cover it. If someone else is in there.
So I always tell them, look, my policy is I'm not allowed to have anyone else in here because of insurance reasons. And then it's fine, you know, unless it's like a mom or a dad. They want to come.
Yeah. That's that's my exception. Yeah.
And they're the worst. Thank God. They're the worst.
Oh, they can be. You know, they really can be. Yeah.
Yeah. To be doing that. That meant to be doing that.
Like, oh, let me do my job. Please. That's great.
So what do you feel like find the most rewarding in running a business like that? You know, like this. I think times where is there a time where you like, oh, my God, sometimes I feel like getting a job. You feel like that.
Once a week. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. There's no I love my job.
I love the freedom that body piercing gives me in life in general, where it comes to where what I can want to wear and do what I want to do, say what I want to do, say what I want to say. And I also get a lot of I don't know, I get a lot of happiness out of in body piercing. I find a lot of people, teenagers especially, struggle with self-image coming into my shop.
Like really, really struggle with self-image. And something that gives me that really rewarding feeling is seeing them so happy with their new piercing and seeing themselves in the mirror with just a little piece of metal makes them so much happier. And they get that little glimmer of loving themselves again or liking what they look at in the mirror.
I feel like that's a really rewarding thing for me in this business or in this industry. Yeah, I reckon that's a big part of why I still do it today. And it doesn't matter what age, whatever it is, just that little thing they get, it just gives them that little bit of confidence and it puts a smile on their face.
And you can see how excited they are when they walk out the door. You think, oh, that's special. That's awesome.
You know what I mean? Definitely, 100%. And I actually love that. I think it is.
I really love making people feel happy and content with the outcome. It's really important to me. And if something I'm ever wasn't happy with, even the slightest, it was like the tiniest little crooked, I'd tell them, so listen, I'm not happy with that, mate.
I'm taking it out. You're coming back in a couple of weeks, I'm doing it again for free this time. For free, yeah.
And people will respect that as well. That's a big thing that I've found. People will respect that.
I've also done the same thing. Like, mate, I'm not happy with that. I'm so sorry.
I would really love to take that out and do it again if you'd let me free of charge. And then I'll give them another piercing on top for free if they wanna come back to me. Yeah, no, it's really cool.
It's very rewarding, this job, in its own ways, for sure. No, that's awesome. Looking back now, is there anything different that you would do in running the business or any changes you'd do? Oh, look, probably a few.
I was pretty immature when I started my business. I was only a kid. I'd only just turned into an adult.
I was only 19. So, like, I was just partying and sort of a little bit carefree about the business itself. Yeah.
So, I mean, I can't really kick myself for that too much because it's all a learning process, I guess. But I definitely- What was the switch? When did you, when was that change in you, in the business? My change in me is when my partner felt pregnant with my first daughter. I thought, okay, this is gonna be our life.
Oh, my God, reality check. And this is what's gonna be, yeah, this is what's gonna support my family, hopefully forever. You know what I mean? So, I'm like, let's start getting this place, let's start getting this place up and going properly.
And a huge credit to my partner. She's a huge part of it. She really took over all my, really took over all my social medias, all my handling of money, everything.
It really helped me just get the business up and running the way that it is. I'm like, I'm the face. She does so much of the behind the scenes work.
Oh, she's amazing. She honestly is. I just show up confused.
And that is really hard. And that's the thing, a lot of people do everything on their own and then find it really hard to juggle both. So, having your partner to be able to help you, support you on that side is awesome.
It's really, it's fantastic, you know? Because you really- You do, and she's such a, she really drives me to be a better person just in general. You know, she's great. And even watching her with her business, like the amount of effort and work she puts into her social medias, I'm like, jeez, I'm gonna have to pick my game up.
Because she's started her own thing. So, I've sort of started to take over slowly the social media side of things. It's not so much the posting, I've still got to get to that.
Like she's done so well and spells everything correctly. I was terrible. When my friends knew, or that some of the tattooists knew that someone else had taken over, and they said, oh, we knew everything was spelled correctly.
So, we knew someone else was doing it. So, I was like, yeah, I've got to, I definitely should get some lessons on how to do that properly. You know, it's a good, there's a thing called Grammarly.
So, it's like, so it picks up any spelling errors, even your sentences. It's a really good little thing that you can just add on to Word docs and it'll check everything, you know? So- I'll definitely get, I think I'm a little bit better these days. It was a long time ago she took over, but hopefully I can get into it.
No, that's awesome, man. So, when you're not piercing and not in the industry doing it, what are you doing? What makes you happy? I love, I love a martial art called Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu. It's my favorite.
I've got such a passion for it. I didn't start it until I was a little bit older. I'd sort of done it a fair few times from when I was a teenager.
I sort of jumped in the classes randomly. Always kickboxed and boxed, but I had an injury. I dislocated my shoulder when I was about 23.
They did a really good job on it too, just kickboxing. Yeah. It had such an impact on me working.
It sort of opened my eyes a little bit to like, hey, are you going to do this as a career or is this a hobby? You know, because especially with punching your hands and breaking your knuckles, and it's so easy to have injuries like that when it comes to striking. And so I gave up on that, which sucked because I really loved it. It was something that I was passionate about.
And so I stopped for a long time and ended up picking up Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, which is a lot of people think would be sort of relatively the same. Because there's a lot of like, it's a submission grappling. And so there's a lot of hyperextending of joints and stuff like that, but it's a lot more manageable when it comes to injuries, in my opinion.
You know, after I've just hurt my rib, of course. That's, you know, as long as I'm not hurting my eyes and my hands, I'll hurt anything else, man. It doesn't bother me.
And I think- People's butt cracks in my face when you get me there. Turns people off a little bit. My coach, who I do it with, he's such an extraordinary man.
Like he's such a good bloke. I've known him for years and years and years. And half the reason even just going to Jiu-Jitsu is just to hear him talk about things and hear his philosophies on Jiu-Jitsu.
And so like, because it's a really incredible martial art. I'm not too sure if he's ever had anything much to, like know too much about it, but it's so in-depth. I'll tell you my experience, where there was a guy named, I think his name was Anthony Parosh.
He did- Yeah, he does, runs a little studio, not far from where I used to live. So I said to my brother, and my brother said, oh, let's go do a couple of lessons. You know, just more like, just more for fitness than anything else.
Now I don't do anything. My brother like boxes three times a week. He does Jiu-Jitsu in the last couple of years.
And so he's a lot, he's eight years younger than me. So we're gonna do, this is like, I'm not joking, about 20 years ago. So we did this, we're in this class.
And he had like people in front of us, and then we all lined up. So it's two different lines. And then you kind of have to like punch each other, and then you move on to the next person, and you kind of spar, like a little for like a minute.
And I had this little kid, and I said, listen, mate, don't keep hitting me in the face. I've got bloody piercing here. And he's like, don't hit me in the face.
So I was like, I'm like a little cheeky little bugger. And then he came along, he came to my brother, my brother like knocked him out. He was like, oh no.
He's doing the same thing with him, just really all smarty pants. But it was so funny. I just, it was just like so hardcore.
Like even like half an hour, I was like knackered, man. Oh my God. I was absolutely, took so much energy out of you.
And even- It does. Yeah, he said the first time we did Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, he said, oh my God, the energy it takes, even grabbing someone, holding them down. It's unbelievable.
So exhausting. Yeah, it's so exhausting. Anthony Parosh is the ex UFC fighter, man.
He is fantastic. I know. And he, honestly, one of the nicest guys, him and there was another guy who had partners at the time, his name was Elvis, you know? And they both did UFC back in the day.
Sin, Sin, what's his last name starts with S? It's so funny you say that. Yeah. Because the man that owned my business before me, used to corner, used to be in the corner of Anthony Parosh.
Really? Wow. Yeah. How funny is that? How funny is that? Yeah.
Now he used to be a cornerman for him, still is friends with him. I only talked to him the other day and they went to a metal concert together. So yeah, he's still friends with him.
He's a great fighter. He's a really, really, really nice guy. And just love his values and yeah, really good gym.
but I remember Elvis, I think he got knocked out pretty badly back in the day. Yeah. I think both of them did.
Yeah. It's not a very forgiving sport, man. Oh my gosh.
Mixed martial arts, like you either make it or you don't. And if you don't, it's a pretty hard fall from grace. Like you put so much of your time and effort into it.
And I think that's why I gave up big boxing because especially because having a little family and the business is going really well at the time. Yeah. I thought, am I going to put everything into this and risk not coming through on the other end of it? I'm getting a little bit older.
I haven't done it for as long as other people have. And I'm not as committed to it as other people have. but I've had a lot of good feedback with Brazilian Jiu Jitsu.
Like I've only just got my blue belt, which is like one up from, one up from white, which was an awesome achievement for me. That was one of my goals that I've set for myself after I got back into it. And I've got that relatively quick and I've had some good feedback from it.
So I would love to compete in that eventually if my body lets me, just like hurting myself all the time. But yeah. Make sure you get income protection then when you do that.
Oh, that's right. You did tell me that didn't I? I looked that up as well. Yeah, 100%.
Because remember you are the sole earner of the business. You know, when you're getting in and out, it really, it takes a big toll on the income, you know, coming through. So it's really important to have that income protection, you know, just for yourself when something goes wrong, you know.
For sure. But before I get back into it properly, I will for sure. Yeah.
Or I'll wait till Belle's working full time and I might just sit at home. Yeah, that's it. So listen, go make some money, mate.
Yeah, that's right. Get those lashes happening, you know. That's right, that's right.
I'd love that. I'd be the best at home. Dad, I always tell her that.
I'd be like everything would be clean all the time. I'd have food on the table. Oh, I'd have a ball.
I know, mate. I know, I'm like a bloody anal freak when it comes to cleanliness. Yeah, yeah.
Especially germs cleanliness. Holy shit. And kids, you know, you go in your house with your kids and half an hour later it's atrocious again.
Oh mate, bombs bloody gone off. Charlie, mate, his toys and his trucks and his matchbox cars. They're like, oh, they're like everywhere.
And then, you know, if you walk around bare feet at night and you step on a matchbox car, it's the worst, mate, you know. Oh, don't even get me started. Or they're sleeping and you kick one of their toys into the wall, it makes all sorts of noises.
Yeah, it's all these noises. Oh, they're always making noises. They break in the toy box and they don't stop making noises.
That's a shocker. That's a shocker. So what's your next, with the business, do you want to expand, open another one one day or are you just happy the way things are in Wagga? No, for sure, for sure.
That is definitely a long-term goal for me is to franchise out and branch out. Yeah. Not to the extreme where I'm going to lose quality of piercings.
Maybe like one or two more stores maximum. Get a really good relationship with my body piercers, not hire too many of them. Probably stay, I'm never going to try and branch out and go out of my way to go into big cities.
I can't ever say never, but I always want to maybe just go into places maybe the size of Wagga Wagga. Yeah. And so I've got a good clientele, but I can also not let my body piercers get so intensely run off their feet.
Look, it's the one biggest thing for me is the quality of the product. I think would be the biggest stress on my head. Having to build up a business from not necessarily nothing, especially with it being there for a long time, it did have a decent reputation, but building up to what I made it and then having to put that in the hands of someone else stresses me out more than anything.
I understand. And I think for you, you'd probably want to hire eventually an apprentice. There's probably going to be with you for six months to a year.
That's right. Even them running another business for you. And it's probably the other thing.
Because you can't be on the tools forever. You're still young. So you've got heaps of time on your hands, but at a time you'd like, you know what, it'd be great to have a couple of days off and have someone else there.
And the only way to do that is unfortunately by having staff and, you know. Definitely, yeah, yeah. And there's a lot of pros to cons to that as well, but it's a good way to be able to be with your family, go on a holiday and not stress about it, you know? Yeah, for sure.
And I know a lot of these big companies and franchises, some of them have a trainer with these fresh body pieces for a month, six weeks. And that's it, man. Six weeks, me as a body piercer, six weeks.
Are you kidding? I was stressing out for a year when I was doing these things. Like, I don't know if I'm the same as anyone else. I was so, I think it may be as well having my reputation on the line with it being my business is why I was so stressed out a long time being a body piercer.
I think it wasn't just, I would just second guess everything that I did, even though I had the best training from you guys. And I also had the body piercers that I was with who was training me that owned the business. I would still, I think it's just the human being thing, just worrying about that sort of stuff.
Because it's your name. They think of the brand, it's connected to your name, you know? Definitely. That's the biggest thing.
It's not like any other brand. That's the very difference because you'd really, it's not like an employee. You know, this is yours.
This is your baby. You take full ownership of it. So it does put that added pressure onto you to do really well, you know? Which is sometimes exhausting and hard at the same time.
But it's worth, you know? No, that's awesome. I think that's a bit, it's a really good way to scale like over time. Not right now, over time.
And being in another country, a couple of other country towns where you can literally jump in a car and drive a couple of hours and you're there, or, you know? That's right. I think that would be really good. So, because I find, I know a lot of the people that we've trained over the years that are in country towns, they're still there.
10, 15 years later, they're still there running their business, which is awesome. Yep. Because like yourself, you can build a really good loyal clientele.
You really fit in really well with the community and you kind of grow with the community. Big young kids come and go, but there's always another generation of young kids coming in to, you know, into your business. Definitely.
No, a hundred percent. Yeah, definitely. And I love that.
Because some people, they always ask, like in Bogar, you know, like, don't you run out of people to pierce? I was like, mate, there's someone turning, you know, 13, 16, 18 every year. So like, those sort of bigger times where people get piercings. Yeah.
Definitely. And you get the more mature people coming in, you know? They're just going through- All the time. Going through like some kind of mid life and want to get a tat and get a piercing.
And they just want to- It's not a huge change, you know? I had a couple come into me one day and I was like, that is what I hope I'm like at that age. 68 years old. And they both came in and got matching piercings together.
It was great. I loved it. I was like, and they were laughing at each other and giggling and giving shit to each other.
Oh, sorry. That's cool. Yeah, that's all right.
Giving it to each other a little bit. And I thought it was just the funniest thing and just so wholesome. I was like, that's the best.
That's so cool. I'm having so much fun with it. And that's the thing.
I think it is, it's really cool when you get these kind of characters coming in a bit older and they just spur the moment or there's something they just want to do. You know what? I'm going to get the grain. I'm just going to do this.
I don't care what anyone says. It's really cool. And I think, my wife thinks I'm going to like sometime midlife now.
Because I'm always like, you know what? Let's just do it. Who cares? Don't worry about what people think. You know, we always worry.
Over the years, worry about what people think. Who cares about anyone? You know, just- Honestly, yeah. Yeah.
And as you get older, you do. It's like, I think I'm becoming a grumpy old man at the same time as well. I couldn't see you becoming a grumpy old man.
You're so full of positivity. It's great. Fantastic.
Oh, that's awesome, man. So what final advice would you give any aspiring body piercers? Any final advice? I reckon, I mean, like when I went off the ball, I've taken it slow, but also just enjoying, enjoying your time being a body piercer and learning things. Like it's such a cool job.
Like it really is. Get to know your clients. Get to know what they like.
Work with them and try and figure out different piercings for them. And don't be too hard on yourself if things do not go always to plan because you can really lose a lot of confidence and it really hits you hard when maybe something doesn't go right with a piercing or you misjudge a piercing or misjudge sizing a jewelry or anything like that. Like everybody's human.
It's obviously up to us and people put their responsibility in us to not mess up, but you're still only human. If something does happen like that with people who are starting off body piercing, be easy on yourself. It happens.
Yeah, that's probably the biggest advice I can give. Yeah, no, awesome, man. And no, I really appreciate it, man.
So any of the listeners on here, if they want to connect with you, how can they, what's your Instagram details? So it's modernprimitivebodypiercing just on Instagram. It's all one word. On Instagram is, Facebook is just modernprimitive as well.
And I think I want to start doing a TikTok. You as well as my partner have inspired me to start talking. I'm so bad with talking on a phone.
Like I just can't take myself seriously. I have to get over that because it's probably only my own insecurities, but it's really, really helpful. And whenever I listen to you talking on there, I'm like, mate, he's killing it.
I've got to try and do something like that because it's such a good way of interacting with clients and talking to clients and sort of getting to know them, even though you're not face to face with them, seeing someone talking, just talking, you sort of become closer with them a little bit. Does that make sense? And look, it's really weird. Like I think I sometimes will be sitting in the room on my own and I think, oh, because I really want to tell people this.
And sometimes getting it out there can be quite hard. Even though I'm not joking, I've recorded stuff. They haven't even put out there yet.
Because I feel really self-conscious about it. It's really weird because there's certain things that are so personal that, but as guys, we feel these certain things sometimes and you're like, you know what? I just want to share that to help someone else that's in this going through the same thing. So I think it's, yeah, it is Bella to talk on it.
It is, it helps me with my insecurities, but on the other side of the coin, it actually helps me by getting it out there. You know what I mean? Talking about, you know? So, and then as a business like TikTok, I think it's such an awesome tool because people, you could hold a video, introduce yourself. Hey, another day at work and that, and you can come in with your camera and people can see your studio.
They can see you. They get to know you straight away before they even come out and meet you. And then when they come and meet you, like, hey, it's the same dude.
You know, they get excited. And that's what's cool where Insta and a lot of the other things, you know, you can put cool stuff up. It's more of like a gallery of stuff.
But I think TikTok is a really good way and reels to, people get to know you more, you know, and I think that's- And they feel comfortable, you know?
Yeah, no, I can definitely see it working for yourself and other people and other body piercers. So I would, and even like videoing piercings. Sometimes I, I don't know how people would feel about that on social media, but sometimes I see some videos on Instagram and TikTok and their piercings.
Oh my God. Or the way they're doing them is atrocious. Oh, it's so embarrassing. This is what people are getting their idea of piercing of. Like I don't let anyone film in my studio.
And it's not for any other reason except for, I just look at it as like a little bit, and this is just a personal belief, it might not be right, but unprofessional sort of getting friends and stuff, giggling and videoing you. Like if I'm going to video something, I'm going to get it of myself just doing the piercing. And then that's it.
You know what I mean? Just so that they can see that. Well, rock and roll. Well, thank you so much, Jack.
I really appreciate you coming on board, man. Mate, I appreciate you having me. And I think we'll do it again.
We'll have like episode two later in the year. I could talk to you for bloody hell. It's so lucky you cut me off, because I wouldn't stop.
Yeah, no, that's awesome, mate. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate your time as always.
No worries, mate. Thank you so much as well.
